Interview with Preye Goodwin

CORYN URQUHART: I’m just going to start by asking your name and your role in the show.

PREYE GOODWIN: So my name is Preye Goodwin, and I’m playing Hipólita in The Force of Habit.

CU: Also, if you don’t mind me asking, if you’re comfortable, for your pronouns.

PG: I use any pronouns, they/he/she. And yours?

CU: They/them.

PG: Okay, great.

CU: So, do you have any previous theatre experience?

PG: Last summer, I was in two [productions] both were at Theatre Aquarius. The first one was a musical: Riders to the Sea. This was in June, with the Theatre Aquarius young company. It was actually my first time on stage, because I just started majoring in theatre in second year, actually majoring and having the classes. Then in July I worked with Porchlight Theatre on the House Key project. That one was a more personal project. There were four of us and we all had to write our own script, write our own performance, and then we had a set designer, and a sound designer, and a lighting designer, our stage manager. That was pretty cool, it was a really great experience, because I could express myself. The first one, the musical, was like an old Irish play, and I played the Storm, who was like a witch—

CU: Cool!

PG: Yeah, it was a really good experience. That was how I knew: I always liked acting but that was like, yeah, I like acting.

CU: “This is something I wanna do.”

PG: Yeah.

CU: Man, you crammed so much experience into such a short period of time.

PG: Yeah, I just really wanted to do that. I wanted to experience something formal.

CU: So I have a preliminary, get-to-know-you question. Fluff, if you can call it that. If you were to have dinner with any person, living or dead, who would you choose?

PG: Hmm, the thing is, I know a little about art history, about film history, theatre history, that sort of thing, but it’s so hard for it to stick. So I’m trying to think… okay…

CU: It doesn’t have to be profound!

PG: Yeah, right?

CU: It can just be honest.

PG: I’m thinking… the poet, Emily Brontë. I can’t remember the name of the poem, it’s about loss. No! (Laughs) It’s on the tip of my tongue, I can’t remember. But Emily Brontë.

CU: Great choice. And talk about somebody who really changed the game, right? She was writing at a time where it wasn’t really common for women to be public writers.

PG: She’s an icon.

CU: Yeah! (Laughs) Great! So, steering now more towards the show itself— what drew you towards being in this production?

PG: Anna Chatterton, she’s a professor here, a theatre professor here, she’s also a playwright, and I think she’s friends with Peter [Cockett, the director]— so she taught me one of my first theatre studio classes. And she sent me an email back in September about the play, and she told me it was about gender expression and rejection of the gender binary, and toxic masculinity, and I read about the characters. Hipólita, she was assigned female at birth but raised as a male, and now is forced to present as a woman, and— I don’t know, just that gender dysphoric feeling, I’ve had to deal with that. I identify as genderfluid/agender, and I just I get that. So I just connected immediately from that character description. I was just like, “I have to be part of this.”

CU: Yeah, for sure. In theatre there isn’t a huge call for roles like that, too, right? So it’s great that they’re doing something like this. What for you is the most compelling aspect of Hipólita? What is the core of Hipólita to you?

PG: She just wants to be strong. So being raised in sixteenth century Spain, she was raised on the battlefield, she just learned to suppress any feelings, and she just felt like love— when she was falling in love with someone —was a weakness. And, her priority is being and presenting as strong and unshakable. I think that’s what really drew me to her. Love can be scary, right? She’s queer, and it’s a very different time from now, so I get that fear. I think that’s what drew me to her.

CU: Yeah, she’s definitely going through a lot.

PG: Yeah.

CU: What would you say is your goal for this production? If you had a personal goal for the show, what would it be?

PG: I think, the excuse a lot of people give— the “explanation” quote unquote —is that everything now is sort of modern, and we’re just making shit up, this isn’t natural, it just came up now, talking about queer people and the LGBTQ community. But then you see that these were things were happing even back then. These feelings we have now, they’re feelings people have always had. And we’re trying to make people who feel that way uncomfortable. I think what I like most about the production, and what I think the goal is for me, is just letting people know that this is something that’s been going on, and it’s time that we made space for queer people. That we do our best to make them feel comfortable— to make us feel comfortable.

CU: That is a great goal. You sort of answered my next question— which is: what do you hope to impart to the audience? It’s that feeling of acceptance and understanding.

PG: Yeah. And also to build community, because that’s the thing we really need. That’s what everyone needs. Just acceptance and community, a place without judgement. Yeah. If I decide this is how I want to present, I just want to be accepted, not discriminated against.

CU: Yeah. So the area of study that I’m focusing on [for my group’s research for the lobby display] is trans figures in history, and there was a person who lived in the seventeenth century named Moll Frith. Mary Frith was the given name, Moll was how they were known, they were a quite infamous cutpurse [a thief]. But apart from that, they were also a performer and a sex worker, and were very notable in the underbelly of London at the time. Later, in eighteenth century London, we also find molly houses, which were areas of community for people to go and wear gender non-conforming clothing, and drink, and perform. It was in many ways a queer community in a time and place when something like that was dangerous and illegal. Moll Frith themselves sat on a stage in men’s dress and played a lute, and sang a song, and lived very publicly as this figure. I’m interested in learning or knowing about people like this. How does that speak to your performance and the idea that trans people always been here?

PG: Like I said, my goal is to just show that we’ve always existed. I feel like any time I play Hipólita —it’s not just a role, it’s a huge responsibility. I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands of people have been through the same experiences. There’s this saying in Nigeria— that’s where I’m from —there’s nothing new under the sun. Anything you’re experiencing now, you’re not alone. Knowing about trans historical figures, it reminds you now, that you’re not alone. I think that’s what speaks to me most. I just feel it’s a huge role, because it’s a universal kind of thing.

CU: Yeah, I think that there is something to be said about playing those roles, and having the weight of that history behind you, while also trying to represent that weight— it’s quite the undertaking. But the thing that seems beautiful about this production is that you seem to have a real sense of community in what you’re doing— which is amazing.

PG: Yeah.

CU: My last two questions are very simple and short.
PG: Okay.

CU: If you could befriend one character from the show in real life, who would it be?

PG: (Laughs) Hipólita. Yeah it would definitely be her.

CU: You’ve got a lot in common.

PG: Yeah.

CU: And finally, if you had to describe the show in one word, how would you describe it?

PG: I’m trying to think. There’s how you want it to come off, and what we’re working towards, and I believe we will get there. So I think I’ll describe it as… flamboyant.

CU: (Laughs) That’s a good word.

PG: Yeah, we want it to be big.

Interview with Evelyn Speakman

CORYN URQUHART: If you don’t mind stating your name, your pronouns if you’re comfortable, and the role that you’re playing.

EVELYN SPEAKMAN: I am Evelyn, I use she/her pronouns, and I play the role of Félix, who becomes Felicia at the end of the show.

CU: Do you have any previous theatre experience?

ES: I do, yes. I started in theatre in like… tenth grade. A little while ago. I have some experience, but I’m not in the Theatre and Film program.

CU: High school theatre gang, love it.

CU: Right, so— a little fun starter question: if you could have dinner with any person, dead or alive, who would it be?

ES: Oh god. Oh no, I hate this question.

CU: It doesn’t have to be profound!
ES: Well, to choose an answer which actually is profound — my sister I’ve never met.

CU: Oh! Okay.

ES: Yes. My family dynamic is so complicated. I have four half siblings, two from my mother who I actually consider my siblings and who I actually interact with, and they’re in their thirties. Very far separated in age. And then, two from my father. But absentee father gang— I don’t really see that side of the family much. But I have met my one half-sister before, just at a family meeting, but my other half-sister, I don’t know what the hell happened back then— there’s family drama, they just picked themselves up and suddenly moved to BC. And they did that before I was born, so I just want to know, “What’s the family tea? What’s going on, what’s your life story?”

CU: Wow, that’s a great answer. That’s so much better than someone picking like… Ghandi.

ES: Right?

CU: What drew you to your role in the production?

ES: I read the audition call, and they described the character as being assigned male at birth, and I was like, “Is that a trans character? Or is that just…” (kinks wrist, leans into mic). I did the gay hand.

(Uproarious laughter)

CU: I will absolutely transcribe the gay hand.

ES: Since I’ve transitioned, I’ve had difficulty entering theatre, because my vocal range doesn’t necessarily meet stereotypically feminine characters, and being onstage and being perceived, it can often be the first impression. And I didn’t want to play male characters because I didn’t want to be viewed that way. So I did largely have to abandon theatre. But then there comes this character, which I felt like I was typecast for, and I was like “oh! I could totally do that.” And then my natural speaking range— which is not this (lowers voice), it’s actually this —then it’s no longer such a hindrance, it’s something I can explore and play with, rather than trying to mask, and trying to project my voice using this version of my voice, which is much more constrained, and you shouldn’t project in it. So, it was just basically a character I was comfortable exploring and able to actually reflect myself in, so that’s what drew me to the character.

CU: Yeah, trans person to trans person, it’s really hard to find roles where you’re not just playing a cis person.

ES: Yeah.

CU: What do you think is the most compelling aspect of Félix to you? What would you say is the core of the character?

ES: That Félix wants to be accepted, inherently. That is a large part of the character. Félix goes through a lot of changes trying to just be accepted by their family and be loved. There are so many moments of Félix trying to change and be who they aren’t, to make their father proud, right? And I explored this idea even further, in a section near the end of the edited script — which I wrote —one of the lines is, “I wanted to make you proud, father, and I still do to this day, for I am proud to be your daughter and I am proud to be a Moncada, so I pray that you can take pride in the ancestral courage coursing through my veins, as I beg you, support me in this endeavour, help me establish my business and my self.” So a very important aspect of the character is wanting to be accepted, wanting to fit in the family.

CU: So, just to clarify, you wrote that exchange that they have?

ES: At the end, yes.

CU: It’s beautiful, by the way.

ES: There was a version originally, and I was like, “I’m sorry Peter, but this is kind of gross here, I don’t like it.” So working with Peter I personally rewrote the end scene, and the introduction of Félix as Felicia.

CU: That’s amazing. That’s awesome. And also, what a cool production where your intentions and thoughts are taken to the stage.

ES: If you want a cool point to write down, I did use my coming out letter as inspiration for writing that paragraph.

CU: That’s amazing. Also very well written. (Laughter) I did not come out that coherently. So what would you say, then, is a personal goal that you have for the production?

ES: A goal I’m trying to personally achieve is, I know the show is largely about drag and “camp camp” as Saad [bin Saud, assistant director and composer] likes to describe it, but a personal goal I really want to transcribe is Felicia is not a drag character. Felicia is trans, not drag. And sometimes it’s really hard to differentiate, especially since, when I was first transitioning, oftentimes it was viewed as crossdressing or drag, rather than an actual trans experience. So that is something I definitely want to make clear, that Félix is Felicia, that is not a character.

CU: That’s a really good goal. I think especially because of the history of drag performance within the trans community.

ES: Yes.

CU: And the fact that while it also gave the avenue for many trans people to discover and become themselves, there’s also that fear of, “it will always be taken as drag.”

ES: Yes. At the end, the character is dressed very out there, it is very drag inspired, but I just want to really nail the emotions and the lines. It may look like drag and it might be more in tune with how the chorus is dressing, in the drag sense, but it’s not just drag.

CU: It’s who she is.
ES: Yes.

CU: That sort of answers my follow-up question, which was— what are you hoping to impart to the audience? Which sort of sounds like, that’s the big intention.

ES: Yes.

CU: So, the field of study my group is investigating for our lobby display poster is real trans figures in history, and underlining the idea that transness isn’t a modern concept. So there was a seventeenth century person known as Moll Frith, also named Mary Frith, who presented in masculine dress, was a notorious cut-purse [thief], and also a performer and sex worker. They had been known to get onto a stage in full menswear, which wasn’t permissible at the time, and play the lute, sing a song, just be who they were -- onstage. Later, in eighteenth century London, we also find molly houses, which were spaces where queer folks, trans folks, could congregate and experiment with their gender, and drink and interact, find community, perform—

ES: Basically a safe place.

CU: Exactly. So knowing about these very real figures, how do you feel that speaks to your presence onstage?

ES: I mean, trans people are definitely real, and have existed through history, but they were oftentimes not spoken about or well known, so how I’m trying to take the character is trans in a historical sense. Félix doesn’t necessarily realize that being trans is a possibility, just because there isn’t the openness of modern day information. So, it’s a lot of self-discovery and realizing on their own path, what this means. Trans [masculine] people in history are often described as, “Oh, she’s wearing men’s [clothing],” right? Rather than, “he’s just a guy.” So that does sort of accentuate the drag performance aspect of it, because Félix will probably be seen as, “Oh, he’s in a woman’s dress,” rather than, “She’s just a girl.” Trans people existed, they were just seen as oddities.

CU: There’s also the problem that today, when we look back at earlier historical periods,  we presume everyone is cis until proven trans, right?

ES: Yeah. Or just, like, “Gals being pals!”

(Laughter)

CU: I have two last questions for you. If you could befriend one character from the show, who would you befriend? Who could you grab a beer with?

ES: I kinda want to say Hipólita. Because, she’s fire, she’s chaotic, and that’s not my typical audience for befriending people. But I feel like there’s so much to learn and hear, and I feel that befriending Hipólita would be a whole experience, right? That is someone I would want to get to know, and hear their life story, right?

CU: And if you had to describe the show in one word, what would you say?

ES: There’s the very easy answer which is, “Queer.”